Muslims vow to continue fighting U.S.

[MrClean61]

Deb,

The government regulates communications companies. Postal rates, and many other industries, so why shouldn’t they regulate the oil and gas industry? And what do you consider a fair profit? These oil companies have recorded record profits for the past three or four years! Somebody says “Boo” and they raise the price at the pump, and then when the “Boo” turns out to be nothing or doesn’t happen, do they give the consumer a break? NO THEY DON’T! So Yeah, I think the government should place restrictions on the Oil and Gas companies, but I want it done correctly. If these companies can show proven fact why the price should be high then so be it. And I don’t mean, “Hey, the price should be high, and here’s a few hundred thousand for your bank account to make it Ok”! You say your gas prices are something you can control? Please explain that to me? Oh sure you can decide to drive less but what about having to drive to work, or to the grocery store to buy groceries? At some point you are forced to use the gas that they are selling and you’re going to have to pay the same price everybody else is paying, so technically you can’t control what you’re paying for gas. All you can do is change your lifestyle to attempt to live within the confines of what the gas companies are doing to you. These companies are not just making profit, they’re making billions of dollars in record profits. They’re doing it on the backs of the working consumers and they’re breaking those backs!

[Abracadabra]

A Reading of Economic History Shows the WHY!

A problem generated by controls, is that the public does not always see the links between controls and the problems they create. Price controls almost always benefit some subset of consumers, who may have a particular claim to public sympathy and who, in any case, have a strong interest in lobbying for controls. Minimum wage laws may create unemployment among the unskilled, but they do raise the income of poor workers who remain employed; rent controls make it difficult for young people to find an apartment, but they do hold down the price of rent for those who already have an apartment when controls are instituted.

Price controls prevent the price system from rationing the supply to those who demand it and some other mechanism will take its place. A queue or lineup, is one possibility. When the U.S. government set maximum prices for gasoline in 1973 and 1979, dealers sold gas on a first-come-first-served basis. The true price of gas, which included both the cash paid and the time spent waiting in line, was often higher than if prices were not controlled at all. At one time in 1979, for example, the U.S. government fixed the price of gasoline at about $1.00 per gallon. If the market price would have been $1.20, a driver who bought ten gallons, paid $10.00, instead of $12.00. But if the driver had to line up for thirty minutes to buy gas, and if her time was worth $8.00 per hour, the real cost to her was $10.00 for the gas and $4.00 for the time, an overall cost of the gas $14.00. Some gas, of course, was held for friends, long-time customers, the politically well-connected, or those who were willing to pay a little cash on the side.

The problems with price controls are queuing, evasion, black markets, and rationing , which raises the real price of goods to consumers, and these effects are only partly taken into account when the price indices are computed. When controls are removed, the hidden inflation is unveiled.

The study of price controls teaches important lessons about free competitive markets. By examining cases in which controls have prevented the price mechanism from working, a better appreciation of its usual elegance and efficiency is gained. This does not mean that there are no circumstances in which temporary controls may be effective. But a fair reading of economic history shows just how rare those circumstances are.

[MrClean61]

Abra,

So what you're telling me, is that, by the government lowering the price of gas, we're automatically going to have a flashback to the 70's when we were told there were gas shortages? Long lines at the stations, and gas rationing? And would you tell me that those aren't tactics the oil companies use? Funny, I recall those days quite well, and once the government lifted their restrictions, the gas shortage issues just disappeared. I don't buy the logic and I don't buy that there's a shortage of gas. If they can't produce enough gas with the refineries we have, then build more.

[JosephBaileyOne]

I don't understand all of the blaming the government for the high price of fuel.  Someone please explain it to me using facts and figures....i.e.

Oh, the tales we could tell in that question.  However, we all should know that the high price of something is supply and demand at work.  We have high fuel prices here in the States because China and India are gangbusters for imported oil.  It is their markets that are driving up prices, not the USA but the liberal left in this nation hates America so much that they blame everything on us and then whine about the government not being able to be socialist and dictate to us.  The USA could allow for oil from Alaska, the Gulf, offshore wells but then a damned fish or bug might die so we prevent access to oil.  Access that would allow us to temporarily stop importing so much and work on a non-petroleum fuel source and distribution system.  When Americans ignore that we live in a truly global market and then act like we can stop everything here we are just stupid.  China alone will drive oil to $125.00 a barrel by Labor Day and all we will hear is Al Gore complainging about the lights not being turned out. 

[Abracadabra]

Abra,

So what you're telling me, is that, by the government lowering the price of gas, we're automatically going to have a flashback to the 70's when we were told there were gas shortages? Long lines at the stations, and gas rationing? And would you tell me that those aren't tactics the oil companies use? Funny, I recall those days quite well, and once the government lifted their restrictions, the gas shortage issues just disappeared. I don't buy the logic and I don't buy that there's a shortage of gas. If they can't produce enough gas with the refineries we have, then build more.

DUH!  Government price controls have not worked, will not work, on gas nor any other item in the market! Funny, I do not think that you recall those days quite well, had you, than you would have known the true effects of the price controls.

If they can't produce enough gas with the refineries we have, then build more.

It is quite evident that you have not heard that environmental regulations and "not in my backyard" citizen movements have blocked efforts to build new refineries, which is a real problem with trying to build more refineries. Less, not forget environmental regulations and "not in my backyard" citizen movements that have blocked efforts to drill for oil in the US and on it's shores lines.

[FoulBreeze]

... controls have not worked, will not work, on gas nor any other item in the market!

Exactly! And that's why ALL forms of Energy must be taken OUT OF and OFF the Market!

[JosephBaileyOne]

Exactly! And that's why ALL forms of Energy must be taken OUT OF and OFF the Market!

Hmm-and just who will control the energy then?

[MrClean61]

Gosh Abra,

Thanks for telling me what I don't know. I guess my memory has failed me. Further, I guess the gas station directly across the street from my father's business was something I must have dreamed up. The long lines out into that street seemed so real, and yet now I find out they were just a dream. And I guess the memory of the minute all of the restrictions were lifted, that we all of the sudden had all of the "High Dollar" gas that we needed is a false one as well.

If my dreams had been real, I guess they would be an indication that the government might have given into pressure from the oil companies and allowed them to just do as they please... kind of like they're doing right now! I'm saying, if the government grew a set and placed guidelines on the oil companies that they were going to enforce, then it might just change things. And don't give me the environmental people holding back the construction of refineries as an excuse. There are so many things that go against that going on that it does not apply. The chemical plans, auto manufacturers, and all the rest of the environmentally noncomplyant businesses put that explanation to rest.

It all boils down to "The oils companies are in the pockets of the politicians and they can afford to buy whoever they want, when they want"!

[Abracadabra]

Gosh Abra,

Thanks for telling me what I don't know. I guess my memory has failed me. Further, I guess the gas station directly across the street from my father's business was something I must have dreamed up. The long lines out into that street seemed so real, and yet now I find out they were just a dream. And I guess the memory of the minute all of the restrictions were lifted, that we all of the sudden had all of the "High Dollar" gas that we needed is a false one as well.

If my dreams had been real, I guess they would be an indication that the government might have given into pressure from the oil companies and allowed them to just do as they please... kind of like they're doing right now! I'm saying, if the government grew a set and placed guidelines on the oil companies that they were going to enforce, then it might just change things. And don't give me the environmental people holding back the construction of refineries as an excuse. There are so many things that go against that going on that it does not apply. The chemical plans, auto manufacturers, and all the rest of the environmentally noncomplyant businesses put that explanation to rest.

It all boils down to "The oils companies are in the pockets of the politicians and they can afford to buy whoever they want, when they want"!

FoulBreeze
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2008, 10:19:45 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Abracadabra on April 11, 2008, 07:20:40 PM
... controls have not worked, will not work, on gas nor any other item in the market!

Exactly! And that's why ALL forms of Energy must be taken OUT OF and OFF the Market!

=======================================================
JosephBaileyOne
 
  Re: War on Terror, Inc.
« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2008, 11:13:16 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: FoulBreeze on April 13, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
Exactly! And that's why ALL forms of Energy must be taken OUT OF and OFF the Market!



Hmm-and just who will control the energy then?
==============================================================

The socialist government that all liberals want to be elected and it seems that this will be accomplish soon, Hildebeast - "SOCIALIST!" Obama - "Black Value System SOCIALIST!"
 McCain a “liberal Democrat SOCIALIST”

========================================================

MrClean61

  Reply #82 on: April 14, 2008, 01:41:36 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gosh Abra,

Thanks for telling me what I don't know. I guess my memory has failed me. And don't give me the environmental people holding back the construction of refineries as an excuse. There are so many things that go against that going on that it does not apply. The chemical plans, auto manufacturers, and all the rest of the environmentally noncomplyant businesses put that explanation to rest.

It all boils down to "The oils companies are in the pockets of the politicians and they can afford to buy whoever they want, when they want"!
 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 05:06:49 PM by MrClean61 
 
================================================================


Parnelli


  Re: Food or Fuel- Which do I chose for my family?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 01:00:29 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason for the high gas prices:
A) Supply and demand

Simply put the USA hasn't built a new refinery in 30 years due to NIMBY. Also, the USA can't drill for oil in Anwar, off the gulf coast, or anywhere else for that matter because of your tree hugging liberals. We might just kill off that last whatevertheheckname of an almost extinct species.
So, until we get $5 a gallon gas (probably this summer) and the normal people get with it, you'll always have to bow down to OPEC.
 

[deb]

The price of gas will not go below $3.15 to $3.20 ever again.  I think that the oil companies have discovered the point that elasticity in supply and demand for gasoline kicks in.

Now, we can invest in all the refineries, pump as much oil from Alaska as there is, convince Saudi Arabia to double the amount of oil it makes available to the U.S., and we'll still see prices in the $3.15 to $3.20 price range because that is where the effort to reduce consumption became recognizable.

That means the the oil companies can sell xxmillion gallons of oil at $1.00 per gallon, xxmillion gallons of oil at $2.00 per gallon, xxmillion of gallons at $3.00 per gallon.  but at $3.21 or some number near that, they can only sell xxmillion -y gallons.  They have successfully determined what was previously unknown.......how much will the people take?  Where do we maximize our profits?

[FoulBreeze]

how much will the people take?  Where do we maximize our profits?

Exactly, Deb. Most right-wing fascist flag waving gun-loving racist rednecks don't understand that if Oil is shut completely off from Japan, China, and many other countries Today, then the poorest man working for the smallest company will get on his train and go to work, the VERY NEXT DAY! When the US runs out of or is shut off from Oil, then there will be nothing but violence, and mayhem; for we're completely un-prepared.

So, bring ALL of our military back home from overseas--everywhere; have them occupy ALL of the refineries in the US, tell the Texo-Fascists that, "The Party's Over," and use every penny of income from what's left of our own Oil, to build the largest Passenger Rail system in the world.

Deb, this is not some fantastic dream. This is REALITY. After we tick off every OPEC nation in the world, then THEY have the upper hand. Our threats are quite meaningless, since they're dealing in Euros and catering to larger Economies, than ours. The price of Oil is NOT going up--the value of the dollar is falling fast. Don't be sucked into the Fascist rhetoric of kick'n everybody's @ss to get what we want, for that methodology only lasts so long.

[Abracadabra]

The price of gas will not go below $3.15 to $3.20 ever again.  I think that the oil companies have discovered the point that elasticity in supply and demand for gasoline kicks in.

Now, we can invest in all the refineries, pump as much oil from Alaska as there is, convince Saudi Arabia to double the amount of oil it makes available to the U.S., and we'll still see prices in the $3.15 to $3.20 price range because that is where the effort to reduce consumption became recognizable.

That means the the oil companies can sell xxmillion gallons of oil at $1.00 per gallon, xxmillion gallons of oil at $2.00 per gallon, xxmillion of gallons at $3.00 per gallon.  but at $3.21 or some number near that, they can only sell xxmillion -y gallons.  They have successfully determined what was previously unknown.......how much will the people take?  Where do we maximize our profits?

Until the American driver understands that MOST driving trips are not a necessity of life, than the perceived necessity like gasoline will have a low elasticity of demand. By this term, economists mean that as prices increase (or decrease) demand does not decrease (or increase) very much.


Driving is a choice, not an unalienable right.   Is ---Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness--accomplished by driving? Many think so!

Food is a necessity, but eating out is not.  People like to complain about high gas prices and look for intervention based 'solutions' by the government; because the alternative of making the choice to drive less is uncomfortable.

Are we being taught that gasoline is a necessity of life? Why yes!  Look at a class taught at the University of South Carolina.

MODEL CLASS
UNIVERSITY 101

Submitted by: Andria Oleszczuk
Lesson Title: Get the Grub and Love Life’s Luxuries

Goals/Objectives:

To have the students realize how much a comfortable lifestyle costs.

Student Preparation:
Students will be asked to write three separate lists prior to the start of class.

One of the lists will be labeled as “Life’s Necessities” Students will fill in the necessities list with objects they believe are life’s essentials, such as water, food, heat, and gasoline.

and the other labeled as “Life’s Luxuries”.  Students will list items they desire to have later in life for example, designer clothing, upscale automobiles, and weekend getaway homes.

The other list students will complete is a list of activities they enjoy doing in their spare time as well as subjects they are interested in.

[FoulBreeze]

Basic services - call them energy, water or communications - cannot be
in the hands of private business.
http://www.miamiherald.com/top_stories/story/517778.html

[TLC1ST]

Does this thread,maybe need to be renamed??

[Abracadabra]

Does this thread,maybe need to be renamed??

OK!